In a conversation with Rep. Bill Keating (D-Mass.) in the House Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Russian Disinformation, Daniel Baer, former U.S. representative to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, details Russian President Vladimir Putin's effort to "undermine democratic governance around the world."
REP. BILL KEATING: I think the public as a whole centers their attention on this attack from Russia and the cyber attack and then the hacking, but I really think that what they're doing and what they've done in other countries is much more comprehensive than that. It's a mixture of not just propaganda but a mixture of politics, a mixture of business and money and corruption and Putin's self-interest and insecurities as well as the oligarchs and his cronies as well.
And that's why, honestly, as nice as this hearing is today, it's not going to accomplish what the American public needs or what our allies need overseas and that's an independent commission, a neutral commission looking in at this as well as a special prosecutor. And I'd add to that this committee I think will take a role in sanctions on Russia as well.
So, I want to look at this as a window, as limited as our time is where I think we can gather some insight and maybe some overlap in terms of Russia's behavior and that's looking at Ukraine. You know it was 9 or 10 months ago that there was an office that had personal effects in it and furniture in it sitting in Independence Square in Kiev, of Paul Manafort.
And there were reports and I must say that they're not substantiated. There's a need for this kind of investigation I spoke about where the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Bureau put facts forward that at least an investigation that he had some $12.7 million in an offshore account and undisclosed payments that are involved.
And my point is this that can you delve a little bit into not only Russia's propaganda and cyber attacks but actually their interaction in terms of political parties and candidates as well. And I think Ukraine gives us a great example. Could you start with that, Ambassador Baer?
AMBASSADOR DANIEL BAER: Thank you, Congressman. I think in the general term, you're right to characterize that the specific topics that we've been addressing today in terms of disinformation and hacking are only one piece of a broader arsenal that Putin uses to attack and undermine democratic governance around the world.
And another way that he has done that is by funding, for example, groups on the far left or the far right in European countries that foment xenophobia or anti-refugee settlement or that attack European energy independence plans. Another way that he does it is by ordering support for certain political parties and Ukraine is a prime case in point and has been for years, where there has been a strong alliance of Moscow with the Yanukovych regime, however many misgivings Putin had about Yanukovych himself who reportedly he thought of as a kind of a dolt.
The Yanukovych regime was doing the business of Moscow, which is why the Ukrainian people had the revolution of dignity. They were tired of being subjugated, their oligarchs being subjugated by Russian oligarchs who were then subjugating the Ukrainian people to the interests of Moscow.
And I think we've seen obviously it's been referenced today Russian banks which obviously no business is truly fully independent in Russia, Russian banks making loans to European far right political parties including Marine Le Pen's Front National.
So, it's certainly the case that supporting political organizations in Europe that run counter to European values and that support Russian aims is one of the tactics that goes along with this disinformation and hacking that we've talked about today.
KEATING: Yes. What are some of the tactics though that you've seen or been aware of in terms of oligarch involvement, how businesses prosper in a corrupt government such as Russia, as well as maybe looking at attempts to put people in compromising positions either for business reasons or for political reasons and maybe used to try to blackmail. How common is that as a tactic in Russia? All these things are connected, frankly.
BAER: Absolutely. Our intelligence people would be able to give you a full briefing on how common Russian tactics are, but my understanding from what I know is that Russian intelligence continues to use a number of methods that are aimed at compromising people either financially or personally and using that to extract the information that they want or the behavior that they want.
I think the oligarchs, it's often hard for us to understand how much the power of the state is used to privilege certain actors, certain political actors usually in about dealings so monopolies over energy, for example, are a prime area for extracting rents by corrupt oligarchs.
